Talk:Khanzem

I think we should continue expanding Khanzem's history. It is still incomplete. -- Slender  Talk to me   13:10, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Why is blatant antisemitism on a children's wiki? --Imperator Johnson (Defender of Fanon 00:09, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Parodying Concentration Camps (0)
It is an utter disgrace that victims and survivors of the Holocaust be denigrated in such a horrible matter - portrayed as penguins making juice in "concentrate camps". This is a horrible parody of concentration camps - we cannot make humor out of the greatest evil in the history of humanity. The Holocaust resulted in the death of millions of Jews, Slavs, and various other peoples. The following lines must be removed and swapped with something else:

"The Naughtzee put the High Penguins into Concentrate camps, where they were forced to make orange juice FROM CONCENTRATE!! This OJ was given to the Naughtzee as drinks. Historical accounts say "it was the best orange juice ever". The HP infantry freed his camp, and he quickly gained ranks in the army. "

"Ive seen the shame brought at the Concentrate camps,

Shame of which no penguin should bare.

How dare Smackler, how dare he force us to labor away, making juice for his men!

Serving citrus to tyranny, oranges to opponents! "

I urge the community to discuss having it removed. I want it removed because I find it denigrating and insulting to the victims of the greatest crime in the history of humanity - we cannot be allowed to make fun of or parody in any way whatsoever, no matter how much humorous and in a fun, good and totally not harmful taste it may be. I urge administrators to please consider removing this. This simply too sensitive of a topic to make fun of on a children's wiki. -- Penstubal (Talk) (Edits) 17:38, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

For (6)

 * 1) -- Penstubal (Talk) (Edits) 18:22, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) -- Quackerzombie   (brains).   Brains   BRAINS  18:51, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * 3) --Brant (Talk) (Contributions) 23:03, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * 4)  Penguinpuffdude Hiking.png   It's almost Halloween!    01:12, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * 5) Radioactivechicken (talk) 12:19, 23 October 2017 (UTC)Radioactivechicken
 * 6) --CPRussia.pngBelarus_flag.jpg Slender  Talk to me   00:20, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Against (6)

 * 1) -- Chill57181     Talk    Contribs   19:57, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) -- User:EDFan  1234  5  20:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * 3) --Mario Rk 20:57, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * 4) -- ca ts (T • C) 20:40, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * 5) -- Agent Isai  (Talk) 03:23, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * 6) --CanadaFlag.png Bro  Talk to me! OHYEAH.png 15:18, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Comments

 * I agree. --QP.png QUACKERPINGU WITH BIG LETTERS!   (talk).   Contributions   A link  Quackerpingu2.png 07:52, 23 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Thirded. Seriously, who wrote this?  Penguinpuffdude Hiking.png   It's almost Halloween!    08:28, 23 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I think it's a bit hypocritical coming from someone who popularized terrorism on the wiki. If this is removed, why not every war, or at least those parodying real wars? Why not communism countries, which killed millions irl? It's established continuity that a 90% of High Penguins (270 million) died during Khanzem ("However, due to the mass genocide of High Penguins during the Khanzem War, little more than 30 million remain, one tenth of their original population" from the High Penguin article), though I don't think it's specified anywhere that the OJ Camps were responsible. That'll still happen if this is removed, so what's the point? I know the Holocaust was terrible, but removing it doesn't really do much. Mario made a much longer good point on IRC, but I just think going after a creatively written parody of a tragedy doesn't help anything when our wiki has had much more violent content (than orange juice factories) frequently since 2013. Spooky Scary  C  K    09:35, 23 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The thing is this specifically parodies an aspect of the war - the evil concentration camps. If you parody the United Kingdom, you don't parody the so many Indians who died thanks to their cruel colonial oppression. If you parody the United States, you don't parody the killings of Native Americans and their removal from their lands. If you parody Japan, you don't parody the Nanking Genocide and their cruelty over the Chinese in WW2. This is a specific evil aspect that we are parodying and I do not think it's okay to make any kind of parody, joke or not, about it - it's too sensitive of a topic, not to mention the fact there are still some Holocaust victims alive today. We could replace the "concentrate camps" with something else that can be thought of later. -- Penstubal (Talk) (Edits) 09:48, 23 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Agreed, why is this even here? Radioactivechicken (talk) 12:19, 23 October 2017 (UTC)Radioactivechicken


 * Because I'm nerd, I'm just gonna repost pretty much what I said last night about this: Should we ban nuclear warring due to the Hiroshima bombing in WW2? Should we ban all acts of terrorism or instances of firearms due to the recent attack in Las Vegas? Should we ban all forms of explosives because of the Boston Marathon bombings? We can all admit that while Fanon may be based off of Club Penguin, it certainly does not represent the views or target audience of it. Khazem, while based on the holocaust, it, unlike many modern Fanon creations, actually tries to pull a creative twist on these tragic events rather than simply using the same "base" and changing up a few names and calling it a day. I believe we can all safely admit that an orange juice factory or whatever is definitely far from the top ten list of Fanon tragedies, especially given Fanon's recent material. There isn't even any direct evidence, that which I know if, which explicit states that the orange juice factories were the cause of the deaths of anyone at all. It might be implied it was a separate event entirely. As for the relation to nazism, as I've stated earlier, there is fictional terrorism on Fanon and even fictional communism. It would be hypocritical to disallow this particular event just because it offends you. On top of this, I'm assuming Khanzem is a classic Fanon event and is so instilled into canon that it's simply not worth the effort of retconning when the said effort could be better used to actually help expand smaller articles or purging forgotten orphaned articles. On top of all this, we have to remember, this, much like many of the other fanon tragedies, is fiction and thus it hurts no one in real life by existing. Unless you somehow deem all Fanon characters as real to some extent, then I can't help you there. --Mario Rk 20:57, 23 October 2017 (UTC)


 * We're not trying to ban camps in general because the Holocaust happened, or anything that was used to create terror or atrocities. We're talking about banning the entire event itself, not because "feelings" or anything, but because events like these shouldn't be parodied. Since many of us here are American, how would you feel if someone created a 9/11 parody even with a "creative twist"? Twist or not, we would most likely find it unacceptable. Additionally, you put out certain reasons, but none of them are genocides. There is a difference between a bombing or a mass shooting, as compared to the systematic genocide of an entire race. I'd like you to see it from a different perspective as well? What if a relative of yours was in an event like this? How would they feel that their suffering is now being parodied like a joke on a site for kids? How would you feel? --Brant (Talk) (Contributions) 23:02, 23 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I mean you say this isn't about "feelings" and then your first and only argument is "how would you feel if X" so uh -- Chill57181     Talk    Contribs   23:21, 23 October 2017 (UTC)


 * No, Brant is wrong - there's a difference between a bombing or a mass shooting compared to a parody of a SPECIFIC genocide that happened in real life. It's not a just made up genocide, it's a parody of an already existing one, and that, in my opinion, is too cruel to do. And yes - it is entirely about feelings. It is entirely about the feelings of users - if you support keeping these references in the article you support telling children to laugh at the Holocaust, to laugh at its mention and associate it with orange juice and "concentrate camps". You're telling children that it is fine to mock whatever they want and to laugh at people's tragedies. This is a mockery of a true tragedy. -- Penstubal (Talk) (Edits) 09:23, 24 October 2017 (UTC)


 * So do you admit that while specific tragedies should be persecuted, that things, in example, such as terrorism that still threaten us today should be shrugged off simply because they do not reflect a peculiar event? Even if bits and pieces of real life tragedies were used to bring your virtual one to existence? If anything, this just proves that it's hypocritical to not rid of the whole package, and even so to do such a thing would take too much needless effort to do. This is exactly why, the orange juice factories should stay. Not because its right, but because it simply doesn't matter. No matter what course of action you take, your event will reflect one from real life. Some will reflect other events more than others. You have no truly valid reason to remove these events from Fanon, and if you were to, it would be hypocritical. Removing the orange juice will not solve any of the wikis ongoing problems either, mind you. --Mario Rk 20:33, 24 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Reread my statement. There are plenty of things on Fanon that shouldn't be deemed as acceptable, but still are anyway. I'm not saying that it was right, I'm just saying relatively, this event is nothing out of the ordinary. If you want to get rid of the orange juice, you have to get rid of terrorism, nuclear wars, and ect. And if you wanted to get rid of all of these things, a lot of unnecessary work will have to be put in just to undo what's already been set in the virtual stone of Fanon canon. --Mario Rk 23:25, 23 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Again, this is a parody of a specific event - not the general thing. We're parodying a specific actual event, not "genocide" - if we parody genocide (still bad too imo) then we're not parodying a specific genocide, but if we parody a genocide then we are parodying a specific genocide, in this case the Holocaust, deadliest genocide in human history, and it wasn't that long ago either - 70 years ago is a very short amount of time in terms of human lifespan. -- Penstubal (Talk) (Edits) 09:35, 24 October 2017 (UTC)


 * My response to this would be exactly the same as what I've typed above. --Mario Rk 20:33, 24 October 2017 (UTC)


 * A 9/11 parody would be bad or those for any other large recent tragedies. But the Holocaust was 70 years ago, part of history at this point, and was an integral part of World War II (which Khanzem parodies). Those mixed with the fact that it's just Orange Juice making camps to make light of a terrible situation and not detailed mass murder camps like the irl holocaust make it alright. It's a parody in name and general structure, and that's about it. I'd be for removing it if it was just a "x but Peng" ripoff of the irl tragedy, like those ripoff parodies of the Boston bombing and 9/11 that were made and deleted, but it's not. Spooky Scary  C  K    00:53, 24 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Of course an American tragedy would never ever be allowed but a foreigner tragedy always has the green light. A major tragedy is a major tragedy no matter where it is, what it is, when it happened and how it happened and the Holocaust parodying should be as prohibited as parodying 9/11, if not more as it was deadlier and impacted the world much more than 9/11 did. -- Penstubal (Talk) (Edits) 09:32, 24 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Khanzem should have parodied world war one since if you look at when it happened, you will see it is in the timespan of world war one. Radioactivechicken (talk) 10:03, 24 October 2017 (UTC)Radioactivechicken


 * I just found another parody of those camps. --QP.png QUACKERPINGU WITH BIG LETTERS!   (talk).   Contributions   A link  Quackerpingu2.png 17:38, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Can't we just delete this article now or at least get rid of the parts that have the parodies of the camps. Radioactivechicken (talk) 17:08, 18 May 2018 (UTC)Radioactivechicken


 * Better idea, let's parody all the major tragedies that have occurred in the United States and see if the admins still act like parodying tragedies isn't a horrible thing anymore. They only care about tragedies that happen in the United States; it seems that other peoples' deaths don't matter if they don't happen in the United States, considering how they let someone parody the deaths of 6 million Jewish people and millions of people from other groups in Europe during WW2. I can swear that if we parodied 9/11 and made every single part of it a humorous parody the admins would completely lose their crap and demand it be removed. So to all the admins, does the same logic apply to 9/11 as well? Does that mean we're allowed to parody 9/11? --Brant (Talk) (Contributions) 19:01, 2 June 2018 (UTC)


 * It has nothing to do with if it's the United States or not, it's time and execution. Killing off penguins in parodies of real tragedies that happened less than 20 years ago is a little different than a parody of something over half a century old where all penguins do is make orange juice. -- <font face="Impact"><font color = "FF8400">Chill57181     <font face="Impact"><font color = "EAA000">Talk    <font face="Impact"><font color = "FF8400">Contributions    <font face="Impact"><font color = "EAA000">My Articles    19:25, 2 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The vote to have this removed is still ongoing and still should go into effect if it passes. I would like to reiterate my case for removing this - it is making a farce out of the biggest tragedy this planet has ever seen, a tragedy in which millions of innocent men, women and children were killed. No matter how jokeful it might be and how innocent it might seem, it is making a farce out of an event that almost resulted in death and destruction of entire nations, and as such it is not appropriate to have this parody remain on the wiki. Additionally, I have observed that all but 1 of the people who voted against are Americans, while all but 1 of the people who voted for are not Americans - this is an observation that does not surprise me as Americans are simply not aware how it is like to have your entire nation on the brink of complete destruction. I do not blame them for that, but it is important that the American side of this wiki understands why this parody could incite strong feelings inside people, even many Americans themselves, who have ancestors who fought in World War Two or whose ancestors were victims of the Holocaust who survived it and moved to the United States after. This is not the same as making a terror attack happen - that terror attack is not inspired or based on an actual, real life event. If you were to make a random terror attack in Winsburg, not based on a real one, it would be fine - if you were to parody 9/11 terror attack, that would NOT be fine. Same goes for what Mario argued regarding the Hiroshima nuclear bombing - nuclear bombings are fine, but basing them on real tragedies is not. Please do consider what I said and why this is so important for so many people. -- Penstubal (Talk) (Edits) 11:07, 3 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Also, as for the argument of time (that it was 70 years ago) - I believe that parodying any and all tragedies, especially major ones, that happened after 1901, the year the currently oldest person in the world has been born in, should be completely banned. This is because those events still can induce sentiments, and there are still people alive to retell them and still people alive who lived through those events. In a few decades, parodying the Holocaust might become acceptable as the same sentiments will not be alive by then - but even then, I don't see how mocking such a large-scale tragedy, no matter when it took place, can be considered funny and good. -- Penstubal (Talk) (Edits) 11:12, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * If this article wasn't parodying World War Two, or any war for that matter it could be a good article. I suggest we get rid of anything on this article that parodies World War Two. Radioactivechicken (talk) 19:12, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Radioactivechicken
 * I would agree I guess, but people can't even agree to get rid of making a farce out of concentration camps. But then again, most of the people against are from countries that never experienced national disasters. -- Penstubal (Talk) (Edits) 19:35, 12 June 2018 (UTC)