User talk:Joeyaa

Hey, arent you from the avatar wiki? I love avatar! I edit the fanon wiki occasionally.

-- Triskelle3  ɹǝsol ɐ ɹnoʎ uǝɥʇ sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı  |undefined 01:18, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Ya, I am, thanks for the welcome too. 01:24, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Bot
Could you make a bot to auto-block AgentGenius (one with a Alpha symbol, the CamelCase, and the lowercase) and automatically reblock him and his multiple accounts when someone unbans? -- Zapwire The cake is a lie 16:57, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Another bot?
Could you make a bot to delete all subpages of User:Jaller2? He was making a maze thing, which encourages predominant uer space editing, which we highly discourage. --  Zapwire  Δ  The d ark  side  of  the moon  09:51, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It appears it's already been taken care of. ~Joey~  ^Talk^  22:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Another bot?
Could you make anoher bot to delete any article that has Google16d9861fe2e0bcef.html in it on restore? TurtleShroom always restores it because Google Webmaster Tools says he needs to restore it, but Google indexes wikia things differently, according to staff. It's needless clutter that we don't need. --  Zapwire  Δ  The d ark  side <span style="color: green !important;"> of <span style="color: blue !important;"> the <span style="color: purple !important;">moon  12:11, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I could do that. How many of these pages exist? <font color="Green">~Joey~  <font color="Green">^Talk^  12:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Two. TS think it's needed for indexing. I deleted them, but he keeps restoring. -- <span style="color: white !important;"> Zapwire <span style="color: white !important;"> Δ <span style="color: red !important;"> The d <span style="color: orange !important;">ark <span style="color: yellow !important;"> side <span style="color: green !important;"> of <span style="color: blue !important;"> the <span style="color: purple !important;">moon  15:12, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, please don't do it yet, we're trying to clarify whether we need this or not. Does Google Webmaster Tools really need this page to index Wikia, or does it index Wikia differently? <span title="MINE!!! NO TOUCHIE!!!"> Yours "Falsely",  <span title="ME!!!"> Explorer 767 ( <span title="Ya dares talk teh me, eh? Speak up, then, yeh young whippersnapper!">The Nerd Quibbles On...  )    <span title="Click if you dare!">View this template   14:13, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Yet another bot?
Can you please make another bot to delete all files that are not formatted in PNG, SVG, or animated GIF? It's part of our new image policy. Please make sure that the bot deletes ONLY new files, fresh from the upload log, not non-PNG/SVG/animated GIF files that existed before the time the bot begins deleting files. It's okay if you can't do this, I'm just wondering whether we could get a bot to do it automatically. Thank you! <span title="MINE!!! NO TOUCHIE!!!"> Yours "Falsely",  <span title="ME!!!"> Explorer 767 ( <span title="Ya dares talk teh me, eh? Speak up, then, yeh young whippersnapper!">The Nerd Quibbles On...  )    <span title="Click if you dare!">View this template   01:01, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Checkuser
Sorry to disturb you, but Fisk Phantom has been blocked. Please can you perform a check user on him, and see if it's Ben? -- Firmato per Il Dirigente  Conversazione verso Il Dirigente  17:04, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This user is not Wikia Staff, nor does he have access to the CheckUser tool, and thus cannot preform these checks. --Uberfuzzy 00:11, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

ROLEPLAY:✞-GOVERNANCE HONORS' NOTICE-✞ (as a thank you)
Joeyaa, this wiki has a roleplaying game which declares fictional "saints", which are characters who have greatly benifeted technology or nerdy characters in some way. Since this site is rather nerdy, and because you have been invualble in both this site and the CPW, I hereby (with permission from the fanon promoter) bestow the title on you, Saint Joeyaa.

Of course, you're not actually a religious Saint in reality, your canonization title exists in this site alone, though you knew that.

 :D 

Anyway, I also drew a picture of your CPFW character (should you ever join us), and I hope you don't mind being a Toad. I assumed you like Toads by your picture.

Consider this a thank you for all of your services on this site and the CPW. Isn't roleplay great? :D

<BR /> Have a glorious day, <BR /> -- † कछुए मशरूम! Jesus Loves You and Died for You!! †    :)  :) DON'T YOU DARE QUIT BECAUSE OF WHAT I JUST TYPED!!!!!!!! † 21:46, 11 August 2009 (UTC) <BR /> <BR />


 * Wow! Thank you! That's amazing; you didn't have to do that... Thanks so much, it's so amazing :D Looks like it took a while, I appreciate the effort.  <font color="Green">~Joey~  <font color="Green">^Talk^  22:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * On average, a fine quality edit (not a cheap cut and paste, but full edit) takes about an hour to two hours. I would reccomend you making that your Wikia Profile Image, that dog is agonizingly boring. It should be your profile.  :D    -- † कछुए मशरूम! Jesus Loves You and Died for You!! †     :)  :) DON'T YOU DARE QUIT BECAUSE OF WHAT I JUST TYPED!!!!!!!! † 02:01, 13 August 2009 (UTC) <BR /> <BR />

Avatar
Thank you for changing your avatar, it looks great!

--TurtleShroom on the road! Beep beep beep beep yeah! :)   Jesus Loves You and Died for You!!!!!!!!!!! 03:37, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Saint?
Hate to spoil your fun, but a saint needs to be dead before they become a saint :P. Ajraddatz (Talk- BANHAMMER ) 04:00, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Just In Case
I'm posting the CPW's anti-fanon forums on your talk just for reference.

Forum I
Okay, I've had enough. It's too much too bear. This isn't a reform forum - this is a proper forum where I've had enough of things related to Fanon. They really are annoying me! I have one thing to say to them: GO AWAY!

This is our wiki not yours. Don't you have more important things to worry about? Such as making articles unrelated to CP and talking behind peoples backs? This follows the sitenotice at the Fanon Wiki. Here it is: The CPW is planning to rewrite the Main Page. COME ON AND EXPRESS YOUR OPINION!! The deadline of the vote is Halloween of 2009!"

I have a couple of things to say about this.

* Okay, CPW is planning to rewrite the Main Page. Now, this is Fanon Wiki right? Not CPW. Please, stop putting your fiflthy noses in here. This is none of your business! Worry bout your own main page please! * COME ON AND EXPRESS YOUR OPINION!! Why? This is the Fanon wiki for crying out loud, you can't put a sitenotice up telling people to vote against on another wiki. * The deadline of the vote is Halloween. This is too funny! The only reason why everyone is voting against is because I put up a sitenotice. I had originally intended this forum to end 2 weeks ago, but no one was half-bothered to vote, so I was forced to extend it. Still no one voted, so I advertised it. Bad idea, if I had done this 2 weeks ago, people would be for. But because of the recent TurtleShroom talk page crisis, where people said rude things about some of us and thought that we wouldn't notice, everyone changed their minds about reforms. Now, I never intended it to finish on Halloween. Still, it makes no difference. The immature people at Fanon took this as an insult. End of.

Now, what I want to tell you guys is that Fanon should get out of here. This is not their wiki! They have other things to worry about. It is extremely unfair to put up such a SiteNotice. What you have done, is theoritcally: once again ruined our wiki. We were on a roll 'till TurtleShroom came back, and he has persuased all those who still follow him to convert everyone back to tradition. Forget about tradition, forget about TurtleShroom: he's gone!

Here's another message to Fanon: Go away please, you have nothing to do here - take your remarks and fly off. It is very rude of you guys to make a SiteNotice telling people about these reforms. You cannot do that - this is too much!

I am closing down all current forums proposed by me temporarily, until we get to a conclusion on this forum.

Thank you, --Tigernose Chat • Edits 13:41, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

It was originally Vote Aginst, but Explorer changed it to your opnion. --zapwire@wikia:~$_ 13:53, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

* Yes, Explorer is very good at keeping his cool. At least he is resourceful enough not to vote against in the reforms (because he doesn't edit here) but to provide reasons conservatively. --Tigernose Chat • Edits 14:02, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

WOW THEY HAVE SOME NERVE: http://clubpenguinfanon.wikia.com/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sitenotice&diff=prev&oldid=89342

--Tigernose Chat • Edits 14:04, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

What is this? I found it on the SiteNotice summary: "(TS, let them change the favicon, the main priority to keep is our main page.)"

Our main page? That's surprising, I thought that was Fanon's Site Notice. --Tigernose Chat • Edits

The more annoying uncp is doing it too. This is getting out of hand... Click Here. --seahorseruler |Talk (EditCount) Yoshi! 18:01, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

TN:

To me, this forum just sounds rude. How would you feel if someone told you to "GO AWAY", or to "Get out of here"? Not very good.

I, personally, enjoy the Fanon and see nothing wrong with them. I can understand how they feel after you openly insulted them. Now, it often seems to me that my opinion is ignored, I get yelled at for doing or saying things you don't like, and you all call me a "hypocrite" just for doing things you hate. It saddens me to see that the people whom I thought were friends turn against me; just for listening to TS, and now anything I say to you is useless.

Ever since that day I listened to TS and stood up for myself, the wiki, and what was right, you've thought different of me. I felt kind of disrepected, and how you all hated TS disgusts me; he used to do the same things back in his time, and you were all fine with it. Now that he's demoted and out of power, you all disrespect him for that? Honestly, that's sickening. You even threatened to block and demote me for doing the same thing.

Now, on the IRC, TN, you told me that I used to be okay with reforms until TS came. Wrong. I've had a rough past with reforms, I even tried to reform the main page along with others; back then, seeing the hard condition of the Wiki, I was excited to see change; to finally shape up. That project (and many more) failed epically, and it was then that I hated reforms and voted against or neutral in almost all of them.

I don't think I, at first, realize what my actions are getting me into. I feel good when I've done something that someone tells me is good, then I discover I get back-talked and insulted five minutes later. Maybe I should leave (quit, for some you), that'd give you and Zap more time for your "oh so big and wonderful plans!". Don't yell at me just for posting this, because I know you will. This wiki is different now, it used to be a bit better back in the day.

--Hat Pop Bunny Ears Rule! 23:23, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Now that I think of it, I'm very glad Happyface blocked me when I was an IP. Otherwise I would have gotten tangled up with this doomed wiki and have to bear all this pressure instead of enjoying the Fanon's literary luxuries and longlasting peace.

I can't believe I was so n00bish to actually THINK this wiki was going to fly after Joeyaa's PWNsome reform (which, in fact, is the only REAL reform -- everything else was a revolution). Of course not. There's always something that comes up and makes this wiki plummet..... shakes head --Explorer 767 23:34, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome. XD--Happyface (Just Say Hi)☺ 00:23, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Contents [show] [hide]

* 1 RE: Tigernose * 2 Let's Get This Partay Started! o 2.1 Rebuttal 1 o 2.2 Rebuttal 2 o 2.3 Rebuttal 3 o 2.4 In Regards to Other Pressing Matters o 2.5 A Simple Essay on Tigernose's Spectacular Use of the Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc Fallacy o 2.6 Re:TurtleShroom o 2.7 Stop Duck Tiem + 2.7.1 To Turtleshroom + 2.7.2 To Explorer + 2.7.3 tiger on irc

edit RE: Tigernose

Tigernose, this forum is very hypocritical. If you claim that your powers ar ebut "rights", and that Webmaster is a fictional rank with veto powers, than why are you vetoing the main page vote? You specifically stated your detest for the Webmaster system in the past, and you felt that democracy should overcome and that no one can have veto powers. Then, you turn around and veto the Main Page vote. You and I both know that I summoned a bunch of Fanon folks to express their opinions here by voting, but you seem to forget that said Fanon users have free will. Explorer stood up and made the link neutral compared to my super-bias, but remember that the Fanon folks could have voted yes as easily as they could have voted no. Also, they didn't vote because I said so. They all gave valid reasons along with their vote, minus me and my "just say no" vote, and Hat Pop wasn't even brought there due to my call. She voted for herself.

This forum seems to be a place where you can whine about your loss and how you were unable to instate Zapwire's precious rewrite.

I have the right to edit here as much as you do, and by your Policy, I'm not breaking any rules, so banning isn't an option.

Who are you to have the authority to say "FANON USERS, GET OUT"? How Webmaster-ish of you! They haven't done anything except cast their vote. They have not vandalized, spammed, or damaged the site in any way. Who made you Webmaster? Who gave you the authority to veto a vote that was fairly cast? If the vote was corrupted, one of us would have deleted someone else's vote or inpersonated a fellow user to add votes to our side. That never happened.

Now, you are supposed the belive that Sysops and Bureaucrats have "rights" and not "powers". However, you are conflicting that by trying to silence me and the Fanon just because they came to vote. You vetoed a vote simply because you lost because I requested Fanon users to vote their opinion too. Most Fanon folks were CPW users too, so their vote is as valid as, say, ZapWire, who once disclosed some of my personal information to the Walruses.

You stated in your Admin rant that Webmasters have the authority of veto. You went on to say the title should not exist, and that there are no Webmasters. You abolished the veto power by abolishing the Webmaster title (We do not have webmasters here. Please remove the title. They do not exist.), and therefore you, of ALL PEOPLE, can't veto anything. Vetoing was a Webmaster "right", not a Sysop "right" or a Tigernose "right".

As if that wasn't enough, you keep erasing my For and Against Votes on the Favicon debate! See the history! Even when I was the stinking Dictator, I didn't erase people's votes!

By erasing votes and vetoing orders, you are in violation of Section Six of the Privacy Doctrine. The Policy says:

You cannot block people or change things just because it is your desire.

You are just upset that you lost a vote. You are just upset that I don't like your Favicon and that I voted against it. Therefore, you must make changes to ensure your way, a tactic that I did when I was in power, whether I knew it or not.

In fact, it also says that changes and powers must be done "for the good of the Wiki". Tell me, was editing the logo, rewriting every template, adding a G.I.M.P. userbox, making the site look boring (my opinion), deleting shops, and pretty much erasing every tradition that eer existed for the "Good of the Wiki"? OR, was it just for the good of the agendas of ZapWire, Seahorseruler, and Tigernose? Tell me, have you ever gone to someone's talk page and asked "what do you think about {random reform}"?. Have you ever considered editing what you have and not chaning it? Have you heard of "let sleeping dogs lie"?

Tigernose, some of these moves that are for the so-called "editors" and users of the site (which I never see actually voting, I just see the same people with a few strangers on the occasion) are probably moves which the editors could care less.

You don't have to be "like every other wiki", you should be unique! Sadly, with your generic glyph templates, G.I.M.P. userboxes, and radical Main Page junk, you seem to feel that being different is bad.

This is complete hypocracy to your own policies, reforms, ect., and one of the reasons why I feel that you, along with Seahorseruler (who agrees with everything you say) and ZapWire (who writes reform after reform) are all powers behind the throne, and that everyone else has pretty much no influence.

Also, the so-called "controversy behind your back" on my talk page was not controversy, and not behind your back. Those users were simply expressing their opinion about your reforms to me, and I was simply responding. There was no controversy or slander involved, it was a discussion, AKA the purpose of a talk page.

You should be ashamed of all of this hypocracy. --† This is Serious Business! Jesus Loves You and Died for You!! † :)  :) Oooh, Yertle is performing his signature Bible Bashing Move! † 21:41, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Let's Get This Partay Started!

Dear Tigernose,

I graciously accept your humble challenge to this epic logical battle in which the CPW and CPFW will wage logical war. Yours, Explorer.

In other words...

LET'S GET THIS PARTAY STARTED!

Now, unless you would like to be hypocritical and commit a logical fallacy, you WILL let me read over this forum and post a rebuttal. Otherwise you're violating freedom of speech. --Explorer of the wiki that's been so rudely banned from here 22:00, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

edit Rebuttal 1

Okay, I've had enough. It's too much too bare. This isn't a reform forum - this is a proper forum where I've had enough of things related to Fanon. They really are annoying me! I have one thing to say to them: GO AWAY!

How dogmatic. You claim that this is no reform forum and at the same time issue a command for the CPFW to go away. Well, then, let's get a dictionary.

From Wikipedia: Reform means beneficial change, or sometimes, more specifically, reversion to a pure original state. Reform is generally distinguished from revolution. The latter means basic or radical change; whereas reform may be no more than fine tuning, or at most redressing serious wrongs without altering the fundamentals of the system. Reform seeks to improve the system as it stands, never to overthrow it wholesale.

Wow, you're right. This isn't a reform forum, this is a revolution (unless you call infringing the CPFW's freedom of speech "beneficial tweaking").

This is our wiki not yours.

No one owns the wiki except Wikia. We're all tenants, and if I do recall correctly, tenants can't evict others.

Don't you have more important things to worry about?

Yes, we do, but that's no reason to not defend our rights.

Such as making articles unrelated to CP and talking behind peoples backs?

BAM! Fallacy 1! Check out this here kewl article on ad hominem!

Oh, and before you make dogmatic judgements on the Fanon, READ it first.

I hope you're ready for more... this is just the beginning. --Explorer of that wiki whose name is banned from mention 22:07, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

edit Rebuttal 2

Okay, CPW is planning to rewrite the Main Page. Now, this is Fanon Wiki right? Not CPW. Please, stop putting your fiflthy noses in here. This is none of your business! Worry bout your own main page please!

Translation from fancy sugar-coating and toning-down?

It's none of your beeswax, Fanon. Just keep your filthy noses out of our zone and worry about YOUR wiki.

Hey, don't press the straw man on me -- Tiger DID say filthy, and the essence of his message was "none of your beeswax".

In other words, we still have the rights to our say -- after all, the Fanon's history has been intertwined with that of the CPW's for a long time, and many users edit on both wikis.

COME ON AND EXPRESS YOUR OPINION!! Why? This is the Fanon wiki for crying out loud, you can't put a sitenotice up telling people to vote against on another wiki.

Another "mind yo' own beeswax" argument, with absolutely no backup. I'm not going to even consider this one, it ignores all human rights.

The deadline of the vote is Halloween. This is too funny! The only reason why everyone is voting against is because I put up a sitenotice. I had originally intended this forum to end 2 weeks ago, but no one was half-bothered to vote, so I was forced to extend it. Still no one voted, so I advertised it. Bad idea, if I had done this 2 weeks ago, people would be for. But because of the recent TurtleShroom talk page crisis, where people said rude things about some of us and thought that we wouldn't notice, everyone changed their minds about reforms. Now, I never intended it to finish on Halloween. Still, it makes no difference. The immature people at Fanon took this as an insult. End of.

This is so long that I'll break it up into components.

The deadline of the vote is Halloween. This is too funny! The only reason why everyone is voting against is because I put up a sitenotice.

And is it bad for users who edit on this wiki AND the fanon to receive a notice to vote and do so? They are merely expressing their opinion -- I myself tried to keep that Sitenotice neutral.

I had originally intended this forum to end 2 weeks ago, but no one was half-bothered to vote, so I was forced to extend it. Still no one voted, so I advertised it. Bad idea, if I had done this 2 weeks ago, people would be for. But because of the recent TurtleShroom talk page crisis, where people said rude things about some of us and thought that we wouldn't notice, everyone changed their minds about reforms.

I didn't intend for that message to be secret, I wanted everyone here to know my opinion of this site. Many of the users here are still immature -- if you can't handle my opinion, then it's your problem.

And on the other hand, is it BAD for people to convince others to vote "against" by arguments? You seem to be implying that. I meant that message to (possibly) convince at least some people to vote against - after all, I was arguing against the QA system removal.

Now, I never intended it to finish on Halloween. Still, it makes no difference. The immature people at Fanon took this as an insult. End of.

More ad hominem. If you seriously think these insults are going to slant people on your opinion, you're gravely mistaken.

And as for the argument itself, it's too vague. Explain.

This is still the beginning, Tiger..... --Explorer of that wiki whose name.... seriously, why do i have to keep repeating myself?! It's Explorer of the Fanon! There, I said it! 22:24, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

edit Rebuttal 3

I could do this all day.... I think....

Now, what I want to tell you guys is that Fanon should get out of here. This is not their wiki! They have other things to worry about.

I've already replied to this "none of your beeswax" argument.

It is extremely unfair to put up such a SiteNotice. What you have done, is theoritcally: once again ruined our wiki.

How is it unfair? Why is it unfair? How have we ruined your wiki?

Oh, and I would like to point out something...

Tigernose: OH NOEZ! TEH FANON HAZ RUINED OUR WIKI! Randomer: Umm... how? Tigernose: THEY SENT USERS TO SAY NO TO THE MAIN PAGE CHANGE! Randomer: Dude.... there's still more votes "for"...    Tigernose: THEY HAZ STILL RUINED IT! THEY ARE UNFAIR!

Seriously? Why are you pushing so hard for that Main Page change? Is this "for the good of the users" or "for the good of my most esteemed and PWNsome agenda"?

We were on a roll 'till TurtleShroom came back...

OH NOEZ! SHOCK-HORROR! HERE COMEZ TURTLESHROOM! RUN FOR UR LIVES OR HE'LL CENZOR YOU ALL!

(Seriously, quit the antagonization, it's revolting and pretty immature when you think about it.)

...and he has persuased all those who still follow him to convert everyone back to tradition.

Admin: .....THUS, I HEREBY DECLARE TURTLESHROOM GUILTY OF USING LOGIC TO PERSUADE HIS FRIENDS AND FOLLOWERS TO SAY NO.    (Turtlenator throws a tomato at Admin and misses) Turtlenator: EVER HEARD OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH?

Forget about tradition, forget about TurtleShroom: he's gone!

Yeah, let's forget about George Washington, he's gone! Let's forget about those old geezers who worked so hard to build up our country -- THEY'RE DEAD! This is Modern America! Say goodbye, cultural history!

(I could make so many examples of this, but my point is that you are making the most absurd point in the history of making points. LET'S FORGET ABOUT LOGIC -- IT WAS FOUNDED BY SOCRATES AND PLATO AND ARISTOTLE, AND THEY'RE ALL GONE!)

Here's another message to Fanon: Go away please, you have nothing to do here - take your remarks and fly off. It is very rude of you guys to make a SiteNotice telling people about these reforms. You cannot do that - this is too much!

And here's a message to you, CPW. Quit antagonizing, please, you can't seem to do anything but bash up our wiki with unsupported arguments and fallacious clauses - take your remarks and fly off. It is very rude of you guys to infringe our freedom of speech.

Last words to the CPW:

* Congrats, your government has finally reached FAIL Level in my opinion. * Look up "freedom of speech" on Wikipedia. * Rethink all of your anti-TurtleShroom and anti-Fanon arguments.

And that concludes my rebuttal. I would also like to second TurtleShroom's counter-argument against Tigernose's actions. Good night from that wiki whose name is taboo in this esteemed wiki! --Explorer of the..... oh, I'm not even going to go into that. 22:39, October 24, 2009 (UTC) edit In Regards to Other Pressing Matters

In other news, look what I found on the history of the Favicon vote!

Undo revision by Tigernose: I am removing your votes TurtleShroom, not because I don't want your votes, but because you are only voting against mine: when there are 5 other ideas for Favicons. CHEAT!

ZOMG ROTFLOLZ! XD!

That sentence is so EPIC FAIL that I cannot help but laugh it its n00bishness.

FAIL, FAIL, FAIL, FAIL!

LOLZ, who abdicated and gave you the right to erase TS's votes in such a paranoid way? Dude, you need to chillax and stop assuming too much! Just because TS is voting against all of your ideas doesn't mean he's a cheat! How do you inference that? TS is voting against your favicons BECAUSE HE DOESN'T LIKE THEM. To silence his dislike is hypocrisy. Didn't you say this place is a democracy? (Hey, that rhymes!)

And why are you so concerned about promoting YOUR OWN IDEAS? Why can't the other users pass their ideas through, either?

I'm starting to agree with TS on the notion that this site's government is corrupt.... even "Dictator" TurtleShroom had good intentions..... --Explorer 767 23:07, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

edit A Simple Essay on Tigernose's Spectacular Use of the Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc Fallacy

Upon scanning the Main Page vote, I came across what might be the worst and most immature move yet....

This is being closed. After the extremely biased and unfair barrage of votes by Fanon's Webmasters, this has become a corrupt place. This is being closed temporarily until we reach a conclusion on this page: Forum:Fanon.

Before I even get into the fallacy I mentioned in this section's title, I would like to point out Tigernose's extravagant use of somewhat slanted and biased phrases.... like.... erm.... oh, I know!

* "extremely biased" -- Extremely biased in itself, doncha think? * "unfair barrage" -- You have yet to prove that it is unfair. Why you think users expressing their own opinions is unfair, I'll never know. * "Fanon's Webmasters" -- Not really slanted, but a misconception. READ THE PURPLE TEXT IN THE COC BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY FURTHER STATEMENTS ON THIS. * "corrupt" -- Now that's overkill.

Ever heard of ad hominem and propaganda?

Anyway, I'll get straight to the point.

Tigernose, among his list of erroneous arguments, is using the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. The name, in Latin, means "after this, therefore because of this". The fallacy takes this form:

A happened before B.    Therefore, A caused B.

Tigernose's argument goes like this:

The Fanon added that message to their Sitenotice, and then a barrage of votes against the forum occured. Therefore, the Fanon caused the barrage of votes against the forum.

Using logic like that, I could easily argue:

TurtleShroom gave his award to Happyface on the CPW, just before Crisis II started on the Fanon. Therefore, TurtleShroom caused Crisis II on the Fanon.

Or:

Germany surrendered just before the USA bombed Japan. Therefore, Germany caused the USA to bomb Japan.

Now, everyone knows that this logic is pretty dumb. But all of these arguments take the same form. Thus, Tigernose's argument is bad reasoning.

Another jab at his argument -- even if the Fanon DID cause that barrage of "unfair" and "biased" votes, is that even bad at all? These users voted "no" because they were notified of the vote! And since when is that a bad thing? Is it bad to let the Fanon notify its users (many of which edit on the CPW itself) of a vote going on at the CPW? Heck, no! It's like you're trying to silence our freedom of speech!

In other words, I can't wait to see what Tiger will say in response to this. --Explorer 767 00:34, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Conclusion....

OWNAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! edit Re:TurtleShroom

Seriously guys, did you have to butt in and make it this huge. I seriously do not know what to say. Let's start with that "veto".

* "than why are you vetoing the main page vote?"

* That's funny. I never vetoed it. I closed it temporarily so the users of this wiki can discuss about how Fanon are butting into things that should only matter to the CPW. How can I veto a vote that was going against? Seriously, think it through TS - firstly I closed it temporarily, secondly you can't veto a vote unless it went through. So, forget that.

* "but you seem to forget that said Fanon users have free will. "

* Exactly. They have free will. Why did you tell them to vote no then? It's the CPW not the Fanon wiki. Can you guys simply just stop butting in! The Fanon is consisted mainly of quit CPW users, and therefore they have no association with the CPW right? Explorer was right in neutralising the sitenotice and not voting "against" in the polls as he is not a CPW and I applaude him because of that. It really wasn't that impressive of you. Anyway, what's so wrong with a new main page? It looks better and all it is a reorganisation of sections so it makes it easier for users to navigate and view content. We have a Bulletin Board and a SiteNotice for announcements, keep the main page clean.

* "FANON USERS, GET OUT"

* That was not a demand at all. That's my message, and if people agree - they agree. It's a simple way of saying "you edit at another wiki why meddle in the affairs on another?".

* "Who made you Webmaster? Who gave you the authority to veto a vote that was fairly cast?"

* I'm not a webmaster and I didn't veto anything. Plus, we have a veto policy on our new policy anyway. Still, that doesn't apply to anything - I didn't veto anything, I closed it temporarily, we were on against votes anyway. Plus, I only seem webmasterish to you, since you've been butting in everything we've done, especially after numerous quitting messages. Can't you just leave us alone. And I'm saying this because you've QUIT. You've said that many times.

* "As if that wasn't enough, you keep erasing my For and Against Votes on the Favicon debate! See the history! Even when I was the stinking Dictator, I didn't erase people's votes!"

* Okay, I did something wrong. Keep your vote. But it's a little annoying to see that you only voted against my vote when there were another 6 favicons to choose from. That's a little "surprising" isn't it? Of course, you say you don't hate anyone - but you still dislike them and that's enough. Just don't go over the top please. This was meant to be a discussion between CPW users, but you always turn it into a Fight Night don't you?

* "You don't have to be "like every other wiki", you should be unique!"

* PEOPLE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND. WE GOT A SPOTLIGHT BECAUSE OF THESE NUMEROUS CHANGES! ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS LOSE THAT SPOTLIGHT? WHAT ARE YOU THINKING OF! WE HAVE A SPOTLIGHT IN WIKIA, A TIME TO SHINE - AND YOU'RE JUST RUINING IT, BECAUSE BEFORE THESE CHANGES WE WERE NNOTHING MORE THAN A PUNCHBAG FOR THE STAFF.

* "along with Seahorseruler (who agrees with everything you say)"

* How does he? If you look in the records, he's disagreed with many of my changes. Don't push the blame towards him, he's introduced a great new policy (unlike the biased one we had previously).

* "ZapWire (who writes reform after reform) are all powers behind the throne,"

* Seriously I do not get it. For the last time, just vote against if you don't like. We think of an idea and we get a majority "for" vote. Isn't that enough! We didn't choose for these things to happen, the community did!

* "From Wikipedia: Reform means beneficial change..."

* Bla bla bla. Do you always have to Google things! Can't you just get a life and do not take things so seriously. I never intended this to be a reform, and you fully understand that, but the Fanon crew always have to pull out some useless excuse to make me sound weak. Seriously, can you not get with the flow. This is a forum, not a reform. Sheesh.

* "This is our wiki not yours.     No one owns the wiki except Wikia. We're all tenants, and if I do recall correctly, tenants can't evict others."

* Again, you take things too seriously. You really have to pull out that excuse. You obviously do not understand what I am trying to communicate here, am I? What a useless excuse, it has no value at all.

* "They are merely expressing their opinion -- I myself tried to keep that Sitenotice neutral."

* Right... expressing opinion. Under the influence of BiasShroom? You did make it neutral, but Triskelle removed it altogether. This is why we removed all links inbetween Fanon and CPW through the SiteNotice and Sidebar, to avoid any arguments - but you guys cannot get enough.

* "It is extremely unfair to put up such a SiteNotice. What you have done, is theoritcally: once again ruined our wiki.

How is it unfair? Why is it unfair? How have we ruined your wiki? "

* Well, it's another step towards Spotlight, but you were still trying to potentially remove that spotlight from us. Once again, those of you hypocrites who voted for these reforms and now say they are bad and want them back, just vote against, make up your mind - or if you can't do that, just make a forum changing it.

* "Forget about tradition, forget about TurtleShroom: he's gone!

Yeah, let's forget about George Washington, he's gone! Let's forget about those old geezers who worked so hard to build up our country -- THEY'RE DEAD! This is Modern America! Say goodbye, cultural history! "

* I don't live in America and it doesn't apply to me. In fact, 95% doesn't live in America. Removing these "traditions" have got us spotlight and recognition between Wikia. Plus, this is a wiki - seriously why you are guys taking stuff so seriously you cannot get enough. No tradition. It's a website. It's the website of the CPW, we do not need users who don't edit here to come over here and meddle. Why do it?

Okay look I mean it. Between TurtleShroom qutting and coming back, a lot of us were for these reforms. And eh, we got a spotlight. Now he's just blown a hole in our ship. And we need to fix it.

The whole purpose of this forum was to discuss the oppurtunity to cut links between the two wikis to a minimum. What you guys at Fanon do not understand is that this is the wiki that we edit in, not yours. It's not like we go to your wiki and spy for reforms and put up a giant biased sitenotice telling people to vote against. You guys are really really big-headed, and what you do not realise is that we are never on the offense. We just ignore the CPFW because we do not edit there, or it is not our wiki. But you guys just can't get enough.

--Tigernose Chat • Edits 11:54, October 25, 2009 (UTC) edit Stop Duck Tiem

Okay heres Leekducks take on all of this [edit] To Turtleshroom

Look TS you have no Idea whats going on, let alone what your saying for one, Tigernose hates webmasters, You loved the system and actualy expanded on it to create "bobmasterism". Yet suddenly when youve ran outt of points to make the big nasty webmaster system is the source of all evil and all of your enemys are a member of it.

the reason that we want fanon to go away is because they are not a member of this wiki, despite your large involvment here, most people on fanon are completely inactive here, also, there only knowledge of the situation is from you

See our point?, Oh and as for your repeted Slanderous remarks, How blooming PAthetic of you

"Zapwire disclosed information to the walrus"--you

NOBODY CARES, Seriously if your going to resort to that it kindof proves youve run out of good points.

as for your continual accusitions of hypocracey....Wha???, it was YOU who suddenly decided that Tigernose was Re-adoptingg webmasterism and then called him a hypocrate because of it. You basicly made up a factor then turned it towards your opponant, its clear, You have no real point to make, Youve Lost the fight and you know it.

I think the reason that you type such long, rants (As I can only describe it), Is so that nobody can make any comebacks and you can have a time of appearing all High-and-Knowledgable when you clearly arent, Nobody can point out the flaws in your argument witch you know are there.

You do not know best, your taking this too seriously, Working on wikia is not a "Career" and "gothicism" is not a religion, you overeact. SimpleLeekduck (vote for me, and you will get a hot dog) 12:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC) [edit] To Explorer

Explorer as usual basicly said the same as turtleshroom but mor snubbishly. and you dragged it on massivley to the extent most people lost interest when you said "Ad Hominem", hypocritical of your Side but not of ones self, Ironnically the only person whos made any Ad Hominems is turtlesshroom but as usual nobodys picked up on it

Wikipedia??, Why do you need to go to wikipedia to find points to make, Like turtleshroom, yyou dont have any point to make, Unlike turtleshroom, You never did, And now your just going around picking up whatever you can,

You also mentioned the "Tradtition", for peats sake, this is a website, CPW and CP Fanon are non-existant!!, Unlike the USA witch you seem obbsessed with comparing this place with. Bare in mind fanon has a history of Jingoism and is once again attempting to enforce its rules here,

You called the new system "Epic Fail". Be Civil!!!, Mabye it apppears to be bad to you because all you hear about it from is Disgruntled fanonists, Fanon used to have a massive grip here but it lost it, now the reforms are getting rid of the Jingo forever, Fanons Panicking!!

In conclusion, Your naiive to this subject but nevertheless you can make your point, It seems to me your trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, This situation is very small, especialy to you, whom is not involved (OR wasent)Leekduck (vote for me, and you will get a hot dog) 12:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC) [edit] tiger on irc

<Tiger|away>And I hate it when they google stuff

<Tiger|away>They are useless excuses

<Tiger|away>When I say "this is our wiki"

<Tiger|away>I don't mean I legally own it

<Tiger|away>Then they go and google up the definition

<Tiger|away>GET A LIFE

<Tiger|away>They vote against mine saying "I consider changing the favicon extremist"

<Tiger|away>Then he votes for Brendan's favicon

I will admit that i was a little satirical here, but I don't think the CPW had any right to ignore my opinion even if it insulted them, and I believe that they should accept that that is how I think of them. <span title="MINE!!! NO TOUCHIE!!!"> Yours "Falsely",  <span title="ME!!!"> Explorer 767 ( <span title="Ya dares talk teh me, eh? Speak up, then, yeh young whippersnapper!">Logic OWNS You!  )    <span title="Click if you dare!">View this template   23:35, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Forum II
This forum was to decide whether this wiki should advertised the Club Penguin Fanon Wiki. Comments

Well, both sides should really stop being stubborn. The fanon is the culprit in all of this(for once). They forced some people to alter the vote, which is really bad. This wiki and the fanon are seperate wikis so it really doesn't make sense in that fanon tried to brainwash the people here.Oh wait, the fanon tried to overpower this wiki so it will not stand, fanon. It will not.--CatZip888 13:32, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

What CZ said. Thanks for breaking it up DP. --zapwire@wikia:~$_ 13:33, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

What CatZip and Zapwire said. --Staffan15 Everything has a beginning, everything has an end. 13:37, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

They're trying to stop us getting into spotlight, via wars. That is a stupid plan for them because their wiki's reputation is gonna get damaged too.--CatZip888 13:43, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

My 2 cents? keeping the connection between both wikis to the minimum until they reach an agreement. Dancing Penguin Smile_spin.gif (Talk!)

The so-called connection is not stable at all. It used to be good, with people helping each other on both sides, but since TS quit, the connection has been burning up ever since.---CatZip888 13:50, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

I think the real problem isn't TS quitting, but quitting and coming back, then quitting and coming back so often. He should decide if he wants to stay or not. Period. Dancing Penguin Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 13:53, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Nah, its just the nosey fanon who just comes here to annoy us. Why do they even care what our main page looks like? --seahorseruler |Talk (EditCount) Yoshi! 13:52, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. Dancing Penguin Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 13:53, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

You do know I still edit here, and so do the other users there...... --Happyface (Just Say Hi)☺ 15:44, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

I know! He's nosey like you said and can't stop being annoying.---CatZip888 13:56, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Who would put vote no on fanon, I mean it must be someone that hated CPW so long (maybe Ben) ! Now there's war ? This is worse. I myself have no comment (neutral) for the main page, but if they have comment, then they just put a comment already, not telling others to say No to the main page improvement.Hahaha00000You got any potatoes, cause I love'em !,Blog about potatoes !

No, it's TS's army and his dastardly tactics.--CatZip888 14:01, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

It is, On the origional forum TS and his Slaves tried to slander Zapwire and TigernoseLeekduck (vote for me, and you will get a hot dog) 14:06, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

If they come back to try to do that, we can just block them. --seahorseruler |Talk (EditCount) Yoshi! 14:09, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

They may bribe another admin to unblock them though. The worldwide society is corrupted these days.--CatZip888 14:11, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

We can't bribe, we have no money on teh interweb....--Happyface (Just Say Hi)☺ 15:53, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

You've got these potential outcomes to think about. Then we can truly prevail.--CatZip888 14:12, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

We can block TS and explorer Legally now for Slander, Explorer was just plain uncivil in his argument, Calling tigernose an "Epic Fail", and that was Turtleshroom was the equivilent of george washington, TS also accused zapwire of bieng a walrus and called Tigernose a "Hypocritical Webmaster", We can and we should demote and block these users for doing this but certain users (no names mentioned), Will simply undo itLeekduck (vote for me, and you will get a hot dog) 14:17, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Well, we can't say that the Fanon users are annoying us. Some Fanon users are annoying us. --Staffan15 Everything has a beginning, everything has an end. 14:20, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I'll be Fanon's representative on this one. I say we make a deal, this WON'T turn out like UNCP.

TS and I have been editting the CPW for years now. Before most of the people here. We haven't put hat quit template up on our page, so we have the right to vote. The main page was exactly like the UNCP petition. Barely any of the editors there were active. We all have a right to our opinion.

Now, I say the Fanon users and CPW users come to an agreement. As long as none of your secret webmasters (Sea, Zap, Tiger) and your blocked users wanting to be unblocked come to our wiki, our BOBs(excluding TS, he edits here) will not come here and will not call you names/talk behind you backs. If that continues, we'll challenge your spotlight. Deal?

I DO NOT WANT SEA, ZAPWIRE, OR TIGERNOSE TO COMENT ON MY DEAL!!! --Happyface (Just Say Hi)☺ 15:53, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

HF, this wiki does not have "secret webmasters". It's a democracy, so everyone is a webmaster. Also, your wiki is the one with secret webmasters. Who? You, Explorer and TurtleShroom. Also, all fanon users can vote. It's all Wikia. What we're protesting against is that biased sitenotice that said "vote 'no' on the CPW vote". Dancing Penguin Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 16:05, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Its a deal as long as TS doesent come here eitherLeekduck (vote for me, and you will get a hot dog) 16:00, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

TS has the right to come here, he actually edits. --Happyface (Just Say Hi)☺ 16:01, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

No he doesent, HE never actualy edits hereLeekduck (vote for me, and you will get a hot dog) 16:05, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Nope, Leekduck. It's Wikia and he's not blocked, so he has all the right to come here and vote. Dancing Penguin Smile_spin.gif (Talk!)

Wow, that was hypocritical. Kost o your users say fanon users can't vote. All of you, grow up, becuse you'll be facing much worse when your adults. --Happyface (Just Say Hi)☺ 16:09, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

This coming from someone who said that select users cannot comment, All i said whas that TS Starts most fights anywayLeekduck (vote for me, and you will get a hot dog) 16:15, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

I protected page for 60 minutes because Happyface414 was removing discussion. Dancing Penguin Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 16:21, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

This can be solved by letting me read the deleted discussion because I cannot find it! --Tigernose Chat • Edits 17:14, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

You guys are all correct, they are trying to get us to lose Spotlight! What are they thinking? I hate these stupid excuses from Fanon. This is one final thing I want to say to Fanon. Go away, you're no help. --Tigernose Chat • Edits 17:18, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

By "bribing" I mean getting an admin to unblock.--CatZip888 17:22, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Oh and DP thanks for making this forum. I had originally intended the Forum:Fanon to have the same purpose, but then TurtleShroom and Explorer came - making themselves huge fools. --Tigernose Chat • Edits 17:23, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

This is an argument that can be solved if we use our brains and make up to create an agreement.--CatZip888 17:31, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Why doesn't the fanon leave us alone? Because they're annoying. --Unknown4 Talk 17:37, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

TS has been telling fanonists to Have a go at tigernose, theres proof on pastey and on talk pages at the fanonLeekduck (vote for me, and you will get a hot dog) 18:09, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

No CatZip, it's not as easy as that. Us at the CPW are trying to get to a solution, but the Fanon cannot stop being on the offense. We don't vandalise their articles! We don't make sitenotices about their reforms do we? We don't make templates calling me a de facto Webmaster! But they do. --Tigernose Chat • Edits 18:42, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Great, case closed. Dancing Penguin Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 19:23, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

THANK YOU SO MUCH DP! FINALLY A FORUM THAT WASN'T RUINED BY EXPLORER OR 'SHROOM. --Tigernose Chat • Edits 19:37, October 25, 2009 (UTC) Conclusion

With this discussion, it has been decided that this wiki should stop advertising the Club Penguin Fanon Wiki, at least temporairly.

Dancing Penguin Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 19:23, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

There you are. <span title="MINE!!! NO TOUCHIE!!!"> Yours "Falsely",  <span title="ME!!!"> Explorer 767 ( <span title="Ya dares talk teh me, eh? Speak up, then, yeh young whippersnapper!">Logic OWNS You!  )    <span title="Click if you dare!">View this template   23:33, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah... The CPW forum is here and it was decided that it should stop advertising Fanon because of the recent "wars".

Also, if you want to know why Happyface414 got blocked in the CPW, it's because he threatned to "ruin our spotlight" if we didn't give him his way. <font color="8B4513">Dancing <font color="#006400">Penguin  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/clubpenguin/images/6/6c/Smile_spin.gif (Talk!) 14:32, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Unblockable Vandal
Joey, we really need your help. We have a vandal that escapes block by changing his IP and making a new account. Can you please contact the staff to make him STOP! --E-114 I am not the robot you are looking for 02:10, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Thank goodness you are here!
Saint Joeyaa, you couldn't have arrived at a better time. We are under a collosal, one-man staged Walrus Raid. Through a man called ZoneKiller (and sockpuppets DeviantARD, NotEvil, and more), we have lost our main page. Plus, he is spamming the Staff with framing, trying to block Explorer (power abuse) and he has convinced the CPW and others that E-144 is the same man.

I know nothing, actually, ask Explorer. See also our Main Page history. It was blanked by NotEvil. See our User Creation Log.

Go on the Shout Box AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

Saint Joeyaa, ask Explorer and friends. He's calling for a Special:PROTECTSITE, effective immediantly.

Hurry, hurry!

-- † This is Serious Business! Jesus Loves You and Died for You!! †    :)  :) MAY THE SAINTS WIN THE SUPER BOWL!! † 02:14, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Goes by the name of Z K, or ZoneKill, or a long list of sockpuppets that I don't have time to name.

List of things he's done:


 * Bypassed blocking SEVERAL times via sockpuppets
 * Spammed the Box with sexual references
 * Attempted to report me and E-114 to Wikia for (respectively) "being a power abuser" and (according to E) "being a "
 * Framed E for his crimes on several other wikis, who subsequently blocked E
 * Repeatedly vandalized the Main Page
 * Uploaded pictures of which content I can't describe because I wasn't there at the time (ask Ninjinian)

I also need to find the Protect Site button.... fast!...

 Yours Truly,   Explorer 767 ( <span title="If you want to talk to me, leave a message here.">String theory is SO last chronon.  )    <span title="Click if you dare!">View this template   02:16, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, I'm Ninjinian (Explorer mentioned me above), yes, so you can read what happened here for the more detailed information. His first major vandalism act was that he spammed 64 of our articles, including the Main Page, with four repeated disgusting images of.... well, lots of blood and... I can give you the links of the images and you can view them in their history. He's uploaded loads on the account of "Kingdingaling", and these are twice as disgusting... --   ¤   (  User page! ) (  The Cookie Master, bow! ) 12:58, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Help with vandalism

 * Hi guys.
 * We've done all we can to help prevent any vandalism from occurring here, but I'd like to remind all of you of one thing. Don't feed the trolls: don't write blogs about how you hate them, don't email or talk page them about your feelings, don't talk about them excessively; just revert their edits and ignore all of it. If you follow these things you can help prevent the vandalism yourself. Wikia has done all it can to help, so emailing in through Special:Contact is now useless and time-consuming, and uterrly won't help you anymore. Joey (talk) 23:46, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Okay. We should really impose laws prohibiting that.  Yours Truly,   Explorer 767 ( <span title="If you want to talk to me, leave a message here.">String theory is SO last chronon.  )    <span title="Click if you dare!">View this template   23:53, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

BotRequest
Joeyaa, I need your help. One of Z K's sockpuppets just uploaded a whopping 97 pictures of spam to the wiki, and even Firefox can't keep up with that. So can you please use your bot to delete them all? Thanks.  Yours Truly,   Explorer 767 ( <span title="If you want to talk to me, leave a message here.">String theory is SO last chronon.  )    <span title="Click if you dare!">View this template   11:31, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * That was done. If you need help here with anything, please email me directly. Happy editing all, Joey (talk) 00:03, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Bots
Hi. I have some questions about bots. What are they? How do they do what they do automatically? Is it possible for me to make a bot? KingH10 ;^)   DOCTA HOO PWNS!   Talk 2 da 1 'n' only...KINGH10!

Hi Its Ben Zim I've been helping delete spam and vandilisim. An example is inaproprate stuff on Mustache Guy & Shadow Boy III. I've been helping starkirby12 also. --Benzim 16:25, April 4, 2012 (UTC)BZim