Talk:Sensei

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Sensei

Help I Seek, Uncle!
Oh Uncle, I'm scared! The Gates seeks to merge with me! My company, his?

He offers great things, But wise tern tells of darkness, See inside him, I can't!

Talk to Gates for me! I'm scared and I don't know squat! Ask the tern for help.

--Mathster

Black Belt
I am Ic34n470r!*(!!!! Talk to me!--Iceanator189 23:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Forgive me Sensei
I'm greatly sorry for mocking Card-Jitsu and promise to never do it again. Also I don't wear a Ninja Suit. This is what my feathers look like. --Speeddasher

Hello,Master
Hello Master. This is Shadow Ninja Gary the Gaget Dude speaking. Last week,the agents attacked the Fire Dojo and Ninja Hideout. Fire Ninjas,Ninjas,and Shadow Ninja's are trying REALLY hard to defeat them. There is too many! Help,master! We are being defeated. We can't win without you and Ninjahopper! Save our possible loss! --Gary the Gaget Dude 00:50, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Get that இ OOC out of this article
It's contradicting with South of Club Penguin!

Also how on Earth can Ninjahopper, Hat Pop, Spider880, etc. succeed Sensei's title as "Sensei of Ninjas" in the future? They must co-share the role because we don't even know whether Sensei will retire from the position yet! CANON authority overrules FANON. Perapin 10:22, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Well South of Club Penguin is the reason why I put the OOC template there (If this is the right article- tbh I have no idea what article it is because I came here from the RC and don't speak Japanese). Also, we assume Sensei will pass away before then (e.g. Club Penguin isn't around anymore), and if not, then we can change the fanon to match up with it. CKSig.png  Wanna Talk?   21:28, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Merging Sensei
It's been discussed very briefly on IRC for a while now, and it's a bit overdue that it's officially brought up on-wiki: All of the Sensei elemental clones should be merged into one character.

Sensei was always one character on the original Club Penguin. He was the Master of the Elements. Breaking him into multiple characters for no reason only weakens what is arguably his strongest attribute apart from his wisdom. I'm not sure what else I have to add to this, though before concluding I'd also just like to point out that this trend was all started by an anonymous IP contributor.

--Mario Rk 22:09, 9 February 2019 (UTC)


 * based --CanadaFlag.png Bro  Talk to me! OHYEAH.png 22:13, 9 February 2019 (UTC)


 * I've said before I'd support doing this. There's nothing too terribly important that couldn't just be retconned. -- User:EDFan 1234  5  22:51, 9 February 2019 (UTC)


 * I never really brought the idea that all the senseis are the same penguin. Besides we do already have articles that go off them being different penguins.--Radioactivechicken, Talk Page, °w° what's this? 23:33, 9 February 2019 (UTC)


 * I honestly doubt if this is a good idea. One, I never knew that they may all be the same penguin, and two, somehow I think it's going to be very difficult.  Penguinpuffdude Hiking.png  It's time for a chat, no?    00:32, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * We didn't merge them before because multiple senseis for the different elements was far too ingrained into the continuity; I'd imagine it'd take a stupid amount of work to try to retcon all of that. Personally, I think there isn't much of a problem, and the multiple senseis thing leaves room for users to try adding their own characters into the lineage (...even though basically 90% of it is swiss's stuff) ulsk avatar.png Current Status: college apps are over, yeet (T • C • Y) 00:45, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Just to clarify, I'm not talking about the Sensei titles, but rather the Sensei the character's clones. As far as I'm concerned, the Fire/Water/Snow Sensei titles would stay along with their lineages, though the character would be merged into the Toshi Sensei character since there's no good reason for them to be separate. --Mario Rk UBER-Kermit.svg 01:25, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * That's the only reason why I didn't propose this on the Council last year. Also, I think that the Shadow Sensei shouldn't be merged, as he never appeared in CP (Shadow Ninjas were rumored and the Shadow Suit existed, but nobody ever mentioned Shadow Sensei (I think)). --QP.png Quackerpingu   (Talk)   (Contributions)  09:25, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Canonically they've always been the same penguin, Tusk's backstory about him and Sensei in their youth playing Card-Jitsu Snow is a good example. I don't think there's ever been evidence to the contrary. Plus there's nothing like a huge story or anything that actually involves the different elemental Senseis in a major way. -- User:EDFan 1234  5  00:53, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * "Canonically" - as far as I know Megg never had an adopted daughter and was Antarctica's President. Also, for all we know, there could originally have been four Sensei brothers and Tusk's friend happened to become the Snow Sensei - if it was him, then he would have recounted the story in his "plain" clothes or whatever. Apart from that, we basically have no clear, written evidence that they are one and the same.  Penguinpuffdude Hiking.png  It's time for a chat, no?    01:51, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Except they didn't have to specify such a thing since they were indeed the same character. Given Sensei's scripts during the Card-Jitsu Party in 2013, a party which he wore his "normal" gray cloak outfit to, he was well-aware of his own past with Tusk, as well as the events of Card-Jitsu Snow and the unbalancing of the elements Tusk brought upon them. As for your point with Megg, she was just a real-life moderator with no additional lore for the purposes of Club Penguin that was romanticized as a politician on Fanon. --Mario Rk UBER-Kermit.svg 02:15, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Additionally, Sensei appeared as a mascot around the releases of both Card-Jitsu Fire and Water wearing the fire and water jackets he does in those games, but only ever gave out the standard Sensei's Autograph from 2009 to 2013. If they truly were brothers, then why would they give out an autograph for a completely different character? Also, it seems a bit strange to me that CP would design four different characters with the exact same appearance; take away the coats and they're identical, aside from the oddball Snow Sensei (who is still gray with Sensei's trademark beard and eyebrows). Assuming we existed in some sort of vacuum where there was no evidence either way, I think it would be more reasonable to assume that Sensei is one character because they never say he isn't, than four characters because they never say he isn't. --Chill57181 (Talk - Contributions  - My Articles )  02:23, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * idk for certain about 2013 because I think I briefly quit around that time (though I doubt they would have bothered to arrange visits from all Senseis, given how lazy they were becoming), but about 2011 - I think that only Sensei turned up with his autograph because the other two Senseis were busy fighting; they wouldn't really want to go out their way to give a few random fans their autographs.  Penguinpuffdude Hiking.png  It's time for a chat, no?    08:03, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * You're misunderstanding my point; this has nothing to do with the Card-Jitsu Parties (Sensei appeared in his regular outfit for both of those), but specifically the time around Card-Jitsu Fire (2009) and Card-Jitsu Water (2010) were released, where Sensei did wear the fire and water coats, but still gave out his regular background. As for your point about Fire and Water Sensei not appearing at the Card-Jitsu Party in 2011, there was no "Sensei fight", in fact there was no war whatsoever, those were just elements made up for Fanon continuity. Issue #315 of the Club Penguin Times, released on November 3rd, it is only mentioned as a celebration created by Sensei for more penguins to become ninjas (before this point, Card-Jitsu Fire and Card-Jitsu Water were only available to members). The only reference to any sort of battle is in the sole context of Card-Jitsu battles. --Chill57181 (<font color = "EAA000">Talk - <font color = "FF8400">Contributions  - <font color = "EAA000">My Articles )  19:05, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * abso-freakin-lutely, also this goes in line with the recent crackdown on echos imo, except these guys are even worse because it's splitting one canon character into four for no good reason and their only standout attributes are "Sensei but master of only this element and wears a different coat". Personally I think it was ridiculous that these were split in the first place and directly contradicts canon for no reason. --<font color = "FF8400">Chill57181 (<font color = "EAA000">Talk - <font color = "FF8400">Contributions  - <font color = "EAA000">My Articles )  01:35, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * It was never explicitly stated by Disney that they were one and the same; see my reply above <span title="Happy new lunar year!!"> Penguinpuffdude Hiking.png <span title="It's the year of the golden pig!! Yay!!!"> It's time for a chat, no?    01:51, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I believe the multiple senseis thing happened before stuff in CP appeared to indicate that it was possible that they were the same, and then everyone decided to just grandfather the stuff. I personally don't think it's much of an issue and it probably isn't really worth the hassle to try to retcon it now.

Then again, if a council topic opens up after the 16th, then I can't vote, so my opinion is worthless lol Current Status: college apps are over, yeet <font face="comic sans ms">(T • C • Y) 04:53, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * No, it is worth something (everybody's work and opinions is worth something) - if you really want to do something at the Council, state your vote and opinion here, so I can post them onto the Council topic if it ever opens. <span title="Happy new lunar year!!"> Penguinpuffdude Hiking.png <span title="It's the year of the golden pig!! Yay!!!"> It's time for a chat, no?    13:28, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * After it passes star could still comment on the council, but trying to put an actual vote on his behalf would be against the voting policy I think, as it'd be the same for placing a vote for a banned user. --  C  K   Admin  14:17, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * oopsies <span title="Happy new lunar year!!"> Penguinpuffdude Hiking.png <span title="It's the year of the golden pig!! Yay!!!"> It's time for a chat, no?    00:03, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

My reasons for "no" in detail:

1. What's the point? - okay, let's go Disney-bashing and Disney-hailing at the same time and <font face="Forte">Let's Go Lazy! The various Senseis are linked on tens of articles, and it's just too much bother removing/changing the references.

2. Logical - users who thought from the start that they were all different Senseis, please stand up and show your flipper to the audience! If the idea of Fire Sensei and the others were that bad, then they would have been deleted a long time ago.

3. What's the consequence? - consequences are very important. Sensei's family has been the current Senseis for the elements. Makes sense. However, if this Sensei turned out to be the Sensei of all elements - including being the Fish Warriors leader, the postponed Shadow Sensei and the nonexistent Lightning Sensei and Air Sensei - then that would make him a huge Mary Sue, which should be avoided.

<span title="Happy new lunar year!!"> Penguinpuffdude  <span title="It's the year of the golden pig!! Yay!!!"> It's time for a chat, no?    08:10, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Just to clarify, the Air Sensei is a completely separate character who isn't affiliated with Sensei or Sensei's family. I'm pretty sure the same also applies to the Shadow Sensei and possibly the Lightning Sensei(?)


 * And in my opinion, it seems like a bit of a stretch to repeal so much of continuity, not to mention several already established stories and events. --WP logo new.png <font face="Silom">Wikipen guino45  (<span title="Let's talk!">Talk ) (<span title="I have edits!">Contribs ) ( Articles ) 09:47, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Yes, Lightning Sensei is a different character too. --QP.png Quackerpingu   (Talk)   (Contributions)  10:42, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Oops; sorry for the hasty assumption - when I'm arguing passionately for something, unfortunately I just jump to things that support it, even if I don't know much. Also, seeing how, judging from his picture, Lightning Sensei actually looks somewhat like Sensei, I guess he could be a relation? On-topic: to paraphrase, like Wiki and Star, I think that it's not a good idea to rollback good work in a few keystrokes. <span title="Happy new lunar year!!"> Penguinpuffdude Hiking.png <span title="It's the year of the golden pig!! Yay!!!"> It's time for a chat, no?    12:11, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The merger in question would only affect the Sensei of the canonical Club Penguin elements of Fire, Water and Snow. The other Sensei's are out of the question and would not be affected. --Mario Rk UBER-Kermit.svg 18:17, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned it was pretty obvious that Sensei was the same penguin regardless of which coat he wore canonically, just wearing different coats depending on the game. If they were intended to be different characters, CP wouldn't have made them look exactly alike aside from the coat. With that aside, I haven't yet read the stories Wiki linked to see how ingrained they are as separate characters, but do any of the "other" senseis, fire/water/snow, and maybe others like wraith/shadow/lightning, have any character traits other than "sensei but fire/water/snow/evil/etc"? Would it really distort Sensei's character if all references to the others (the three elemental senseis) were changed to refer to him?

It feels lame to me that random sensei relatives exist for every version of card-jitsu, with their only known attributes (as far as I know) being the aforementioned "sensei but x". It's similar to my distaste for Aunt Arctic's Family, where they're all random journalists named "relative-name Arctic", or how Herbert has a bunch of siblings whose only character traits are being evil. --  C  K   Admin  14:17, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I did some investigation in regards to links and use of the characters. In addition to being linked on Template:Ninja (7 links):
 * Fire Sensei is linked on 37 articles and is used in Falco's Journey (appears once and has two lines of dialogue), Traveling All of Antarctica/Chapter 6 (indirect mention, only a link), and South of Club Penguin (two lines of dialogue).
 * Water Sensei is the only one of the three that actually has any use. The page is linked on 47 articles, 20 of which are from Template:Hochstadt Family as well as Traveling All of Antarctica/Chapter 6 (appears once with only two lines of dialogue), Chapter 7 (redirect from Water Dojo), The Last Stand (mentioned once), Great Snowzerland War II (where he plays a significant part), Fisch Hochstadt and the Jade Puffle, and South of Club Penguin (one line of dialogue).
 * Snow Sensei is linked on 20 articles and is only used in South of Club Penguin (four lines of dialogue).

Out of the three only Water Sensei has any real part outside of being a Sensei echo. The others are only linked to and neither are in any context that couldn't just be replaced with Sensei himself. If it were up to me, I'd say retcon them into Sensei and keep the actually original portions of Water Sensei as his own character. -- User:EDFan 1234  5  15:32, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * In which case, to make a compromise, just merge Fire and Snow Sensei, and keep Water Sensei. That way, you lot will be happy because two of the Sensei echoes are in one piece, and the ones who are against the proposal will have to be glad that the Water Sensei is Sensei's brother/cousin/whatever. Good idea? <span title="Happy new lunar year!!"> Penguinpuffdude Hiking.png <span title="It's the year of the golden pig!! Yay!!!"> It's time for a chat, no?    00:03, 11 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Btw in Card-Jitsu Party, Fire Sensei and Water Sensei show that they have jealousy too and the entire story is pretty much about those two, but seeing how that's the only one where Fire Sensei actually does anything I guess it doesn't count... <span title="Happy new lunar year!!"> Penguinpuffdude Hiking.png <span title="It's the year of the golden pig!! Yay!!!"> It's time for a chat, no?    00:44, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

As PPD and Star said before, it would be too much of a hassle and the users who were active when they written thought it was a good idea so why is it bad now?--Radioactivechicken, Talk Page, °w° what's this? 16:07, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't believe too much work is a very good excuse. If we could go through countless articles for Project:Delet this, we can make changes to less than 100 for a retcon. -- User:EDFan 1234  5  16:50, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Though, most of the articles on Delet this are linked on a few pages (for example Chickpenguin), but the Elemental Senseis alone link to 114 pages, which makes them significant characters to me. I find it odd that while there's a fuss about these lot, but not about, say, AmigoX and Xgopen. <span title="Happy new lunar year!!"> Penguinpuffdude Hiking.png <span title="It's the year of the golden pig!! Yay!!!"> It's time for a chat, no?    00:03, 11 February 2019 (UTC)